Rob Gallo, Founder, CEO, CompLinks
Rob Gallo is the Founder and CEO of CompLinks, a white-label consumer engagement platform helping companies better understand their customers, enhance their loyalty programs beyond their own properties, and allow their customers to earn points while living their lives.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/peakmarketing/
https://complinks.co/
https://complinks.co/sus/
AUTOMATED EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:01] You're listening to Scaling Up Services where we speak with entrepreneurs authors business experts and thought leaders to give you the knowledge and insights you need to scale your service based business faster and easier. And now here is your host Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt.
[00:00:22] Are you a CEO looking to scale your company faster and easier. Checkout Thrive Roundtable thrive combines a moderated peer group mastermind expert one on one coaching access to proven growth tools and a 24/7 support community created by Inc award winning CEO and certified scaling up business coach Bruce Eckfeldt. Thrive will help you grow your business more quickly and with less drama. For more details about the program, visit eckfeldt.com/thrive . That’s E C K F E L D T. com / thrive.
[00:00:57] Welcome, everyone. This is scaling up services. I'm Bruce Eckfeldt. I'm your host. And our guest today is Rob Gallo. He is an entrepreneur. He is an expert in customer engagement and customer loyalty. We're going to talk to him about what service based businesses can do to focus more on customers, how to make them more strategic in terms of the growth of the business. We're going to learn a little bit about his background, some some interesting background here and what he's doing with his new company CompLinks, where he's founder and CEO. And we're going to learn about how he's approaching customer engagement from a platform point of view, technology, what companies can do to better increase customer loyalty.
[00:01:31] So with that, Rob, welcome to the program. Thanks, Bruce. Appreciate it.
[00:01:34] So why don't we start with your background and I've got your cheat sheet here and I'm curious to hear it, but it started as an entrepreneur in casinos and gaming. Yeah.
[00:01:43] So why don't we do we learn a little bit about that and and how you got into the whole kind of customer engagement, customer loyalty side? And then we can learn about complex and what you're doing there.
[00:01:51] Absolutely. Yeah. So it was an interesting story. And, you know, beyond the cheat sheet that you have, I'll give you the real lowdown on.
[00:01:58] Exactly.
[00:01:58] I was on vacation with my wife and daughter at the time in nineteen ninety four. And I looked up at a sign on a kiosk that said, wait, you're up to 250000 on the Super Bowl. I thought wow, that's a lot. So I went in and I introduced myself to the guy that was running the place and at the time they had a phone betting thing and I said I could set you up with customers.
[00:02:18] Anyway, long story short, as we became friends and we had been on vacation a couple of years after that and someone came down to him with a prospectus that they wanted to start an online casino and get a license. I said, that's a great idea. You should open your own. And he says, OK. You could run it.
[00:02:35] I didn't know the difference between the whole percentage of video poker and blackjack itself. Figure it out. How hard could it be? So I went up to Toronto and met with the company cryptologic in June of 97. Told them what we wanted to look like. The idea, the theme. And we built it out. We went live November 3rd of 1997, did about one hundred thousand dollars in business and just never looked back in a month. It was just unbelievable.
[00:02:59] And what was that? What was the gaming line at that point like? How did you handle the operations and how did that work?
[00:03:04] Great question. What we did was we hired an attorney out of Washington, D.C., who understood the Wire Act, which was written in 1961, that clearly defined sports betting as illegal. But when they wrote the law in 1961, they never really contemplated someone can play video poker or a phone line. So our stance was that if we're talking about casino games, particularly poker, blackjack, video, poker ads, stuff like that, that law does not apply that statute. 1861, which was the name of the statute anyway. So I filed my taxes and did everything we did move to Antigua overseas where the company is located. I moved down there for 10 years with my wife and kids. As funny story, my wife like.
[00:03:45] Whereas a.. Honestly, it's beautiful.
[00:03:50] But again, fast forward to early 1998. The company that we license the technology from didn't have a back a back end. So to say they wouldn't give us three flat files a day and we would kind of ingest them into a Excel spreadsheet just to get an idea of who did what yesterday so we can say, hey, you had a great day or you had a bad day. And here's some extra bonus points. So we ended up building our own loyalty program because. Chernof, if you ever want to look at what a loyalty program is, you should really look at the casino industry.
[00:04:22] It's crazy what they know about you and your behavior and what you're doing in casinos.
[00:04:26] You Banton's scratching the surface as to what they know about you, but the idea is that we emulated that and built it upon that same infrastructure. So we knew, you know, who played what. Yesterday, last week, the week before. What days of the week they normally played. And we built personas of types of players that we would have and then sent out specific marketing messages to those types of people who were most likely to respond to that message. Interesting. So, you know, if you think about yourself, if you have any service or company that you do business with and you're on their general mailing list, you're getting everything under the sun for what they do. But if you're dealing with a company that is, you know, they may have, you know, five or different 10 different products or services they offer, but you're only dealing with them for one. And that's all you want to know about. You know, it makes sense from an operator standpoint to just focus on that right now. The messaging that's going to that, Bruce is going to respond. Two is more likely to get a favorable response than a no response.
[00:05:25] I'm curious what in terms of with the data that you had and I'm kind of the online habits, behavior that you were able to collect. What were the things that ended up being really correlate heavily to success of marketing messages and stuff? Like what? What ended up being good indicators around people that were gonna we're gonna actually reply to to your messages.
[00:05:47] Yeah. So in a word, the word is habit. So people are generally habitual by nature in an understanding that is the key driver. So now it sort of goes against the grain with popular belief that if I have someone who's playing slots all the time, I should introduce them to video poker or to blackjack.
[00:06:07] But if they're not video poker players or blackjack players, you're kind of wasting your time and your energy and your effort.
[00:06:15] So in a real world example that I can give you, that is crystal clear.
[00:06:20] My wife but I would go to Foxwoods. I would play poker. She would play blackjack slots.
[00:06:28] So when we would get home, usually about three or four days later, we would get a piece of mail, each of us individually. And mine would tell me all about the promotions for poker in the upcoming month, the big calendar in advance. Everything that was poker related, hers would be more. Hey, we have a slots tournament coming up next month. You know, we'll give you this bonus, blah, blah, blah. So it's kind of what I call fishing, where the fish are. And that's you speak to the people as they want to be spoken to about what relates to them. So it's kind of a fine line, though, in a services oriented business where, you know, if you if you do provide a lot of different services and you want to try and cross market to someone who's already purchased one of your services and you want to upsell them, there should be some sort of correlation.
[00:07:12] Makes sounds like if you if you have if you're if you're doing or if you're a lawyer and you do a particular type of contract and you know that that kind of contract is going to lead to a statement of work later, you kind of, you know, the logical progression of the challenges they're going to have or the work that they're going to need to be able to kind of anticipate that and market against that makes sense. Yeah, Bobby Kennedy didn't know that process.
[00:07:33] Yeah, exactly. So, you know, if you're a lawyer and you're filling out documentation for a potential client and then it leads to something about trademarks or copyright, then you can kind of go down that road. But you wouldn't want to then jump into real estate law or, you know, make some mention there could just as adults feel. That's just my opinion.
[00:07:51] Yeah, I make sense. I mean, I think that there's, you know, thinking through what is the customer journey or what does the customer experience, the challenges they're going to have and then figure out how to market against those things, too. You've had this experience in casinos, learned a lot about both gaming and law and the marketing side of it. Tell us about complex. What what led to that and how what is that? The company focused on there.
[00:08:11] Yeah. So as I mentioned in the casino business, we built the loyalty program from scratch. And when all was said and done, we had five casino properties in a poker room where people could earn from one and play at another. And, you know, use that same bonus that they just earned, which is popular in the casino industry now. You know, we think of Caesars, MGM, you know, the M Life car. They had the Caesar's total rewards, which they just renamed. But this same sort of ideology in that this is what prompted us to launch what we call comp links. And it actually stem is from the casino industry. The word comp is short for complimentary and link is linking to different rewards programs. Gardner So what happened was my daughter graduated from business, I sold a company, the casino industry. I exited in 2010 and I did very well. I was retired. I sort of backed into consulting and, you know, I did some consulting gigs for Dover Downs in Delaware, Grambling Entertainment down and Billys, a couple of software companies, Parks Casino. Anyway, long and short of it is when my daughter graduated from business school in I think it was 2015. We were looking to acquire a company in New York called Long Island Loyalty. They have a a little coalition loyalty program, about 250 merchants in it. And we thought it was really interesting. They would you would buy something from one merchant in the coalition and you would get 10 percent of whatever you bought stored as a stored value on this kind of faux credit card that you could redeem at any other property in that coalition.
[00:09:37] Interesting. You wanted to take it digital. I'm a digital guy my whole life. So they we just couldn't come to terms with the owner. So we ended up saying, let's just build our own. So and when we started doing that back in 2016, my daughter said, why don't we focus on the casino space? I said, that's brilliant. So that's how we did it. About six months worth of due diligence, did a feasibility study, wrote the business plan and came up with what is complex. So complex in a nutshell is an engagement platform that allows companies who have loyalty programs to engage with their customers beyond their core product or service. So we didn't invent the idea. Bruce, if you look at Southwest has their rapid rewards program, you fly on their planes and you get rewards. Then they also have a marketplace. So if I shop at Wal-Mart, Kmart, Home Depot, Petco, you know, J.C. Penney, a thousand brand name stores that they have relationships with on their site, I could earn miles in their program. So Shell has the fuel rewards. Hilton has their Hilton honors. Marriott has their bond boy program. They all have these coalition loyalty platforms built in. So that's what we ended up building. If you if you look at it from a consumer perspective, E Bates is the best example, which is now Rocky 10. And that is I could buy things at a thousand different stores in a year cashback that gets stored in some sort of value that I can get cashback on. So that's what we did and it's going very well.
[00:11:01] Makes sense. I remember when I was earning tons and tons of miles on on airlines when I was doing a lot. Consulting. I remember the last thing I want to do is get back on an airplane using those rewards to buy other things that I actually wanted. You know, it's that you end up earning points in a in a category that ends up not being that desirable.
[00:11:19] That's a win, I guess. What have you learned in that process as you've kind of built this business? And you know what? How how do you position it? What's the what are your customers like? How. You know, why do they end up buying or using you and your system for, you know, for the rewards programs?
[00:11:34] Yeah. So generally, our customers are enterprise solution customers. They're big customers that have at least 40 or 50 thousand active members in their loyalty rewards program. And the reason for that is the margins are small, very tight. So we have affiliate relationships with Wal-Mart, Kmart, Home Depot, Petco and a thousand other stores that pay us anywhere from 1 percent up to maybe 10 percent. So 15 percent we have hey needle, which we get a 15 percent commission. We share that commission with the customer. And the only thing the customer could do with the points that he earns or she earns is transfer them back to our flagship property, who we run the program for. So it's like a a closed loop system. So Parks Casino is one of our clients as an example. And someone in addition to playing video poker slots, blackjack at the casino can now earn rewards outside the casino, but they can only exclusively use them back in the casino, which is a win win for the casino because they want you to come back and revisit the property.
[00:12:31] Yeah, exactly. And and I guess, what have you learned about these kind of reward systems? You know, why do they work? Who do they work with? What are the strategies that that tend to generate the best results?
[00:12:41] So we manage the end users foreign on behalf of our clients. So it's a fully managed solution. And the reason that we do it is we really don't want casino customer service dealing with a customer saying, hey, I bought a ceiling fan from Home Depot and didn't get my points. So we manage the whole thing. And in doing so, we have a good understanding of what the demographic and psychographic is of the customers that use the platform. And generally speaking, Bruce, to answer your question is we understand that the customer is looking for a better, more meaningful experience with the brand. In this case, it's club for PARC's casino, but they're only in the casino on average 10 days a year.
[00:13:18] So for the other three hundred fifty five days when they're buying stuff on Amazon, they're buying stuff at Wal-Mart. We manage those relationships, but tie it back to the brand that they have an affinity to, which is Park's casino. So it creates this sort of loop where the customer is still engaged with the brand and they want to continue to. It's almost like gamification to where, you know, they can gamified the process of shopping in terms of creating more value for themselves when they go back to the casino. Only casinos that we're working with other clients as well. But casino is the easiest one because that's my background.
[00:13:53] Yeah. And is that I mean, it seems like the kind of application here is for kind of a strong brand, but the brand has very kind of intermittent real kind of interface with the customer, you know, extending that or keeping that top of mind, keeping that that relationship going, doing during these long breaks and not actually interacting with the brand directly. It seems like that that's the real benefit of the of the product.
[00:14:18] That's definitely one of them. But then if you look at Shell's fewer rewards, I don't know how often you add gas, but if you're traveling often enough, it's once, twice a week, whatever the case may be. So it's in addition to those things where the casino customer might only show up 10 days in in the course of a calendar year. You know, you're getting guests 40 times a year, 50 times a year, but you're still looking for that extra edge in lowering your gas bill for things that you're going to buy anyway. Yeah, every day.
[00:14:46] It kind of kind of getting getting a little percentage here. There ends up adding up if you do it on a regular basis.
[00:14:51] So how do you. Now, let's talk about kind of customer loyalty. You know, in terms of definition, in terms of what what really kind of drives the strategy around customer loyalty, when we talk about how similar to what are we referring terrible or where do you refer to when you when you think strategically about customers?
[00:15:08] Yeah, it's a great question, Bruce. And you could probably get 10 different answers from 10 different people on customer loyalty is and it's almost an internal perception of what customer loyalty means. But in my estimation, at the broad stroke, it is the brand. It's about the brand and a customer's relationship with that brand, an emotional relationship. Like if you think about companies like Apple and then you think of companies like Hilton or Microsoft, it creates a vision in your mind and you how you think about that company. Now, if they give you points for doing something, that's one thing. But when you belong to the organization in the sense that they treat you properly when you speak with them at every touch point and you have that sense of I would do business with this company because A, their products are phenomenal, but b and probably most is maybe as important as A is their their customer service. How they respond tells a lot about a company. Now, if you can get a company that's worth a trillion dollars like. Apple and get someone on the phone. Granted, it may take an hour, but when you do, they're going to give you the type of attention that you deserve. Granted, you're spending $2000 or more on a souped up laptop. But you know, to me, loyalty is the key. The companies experience with that customer and vice versa. Not just here. Some points for shopping with me.
[00:16:29] And what do you do? Like what? In that process can you do to, you know, make that positive, make that work, increase the kind of, you know, the affinity to the brand and what things end up not serving you well?
[00:16:40] Yeah. So, you know, getting back to your specific demographic, who might be listening to this podcast? You have a small service, maybe 5, 10 employees or maybe it's just the one employee operation and you think about your interactions with your potential customers. So that's in your advertising, marketing, messaging, prospecting. And then with your actual customers, when someone calls you how they look at your invoice, the your Web site, it says a lot about you. Everything comes back to branding, marketing, and then creates that feel of I will do business with this company because they make me feel as part of the group or comfortable in doing business with them, because obviously I'm not telling you anything you don't know. But every single decision, sales decision is made at an emotional level and is backed up by logic and reason.
[00:17:31] So it's incredibly important that your listeners understand that they need to make an emotional connection with their potential customers. And that's how you keep a customer for life.
[00:17:40] How do you do that with something? You're kind of listening off a couple of touch points. But something like an invoice like I think most businesses these days, you know, they're wired up to quick boxes. Blank that may, you know, end of the month or the end of a project. They put on a bunch of numbers. They talk about the hours. They had some buttons and it fires off an email, you know, invoices to folks.
[00:17:58] I mean, are there missed opportunities there? I mean, you should how should companies look at the different touchpoints and kind of prioritize which ones they really need to kind of develop a strategy for or create a more kind of focused communication around and which ones they not? And then how do they figure out what to actually say and how to say it? And what's the you know, what other brand kind of attributes you need to think about when you do that again.
[00:18:19] All great questions for us. So starting with what you said with the invoice, so Quicken allows you to put in a message at the bottom of the invoice that says thank you for your business or, you know, best wishes, whatever it is. So it's simple and easy enough to wish someone happy holidays at the bottom of your invoice. And it just shows a little more attention. And it's simple.
[00:18:40] But, you know, part of that is not to overthinking, but put yourself in the customer or the recipient standpoint and say, what do I like to see what floats my boat, which sometimes might be it might backfire because I'm not a casino player. Right. So you're might not be your own target customer, but you should understand what your target customer thinks. And that's how building personas of what your potential customers are is vitally important. And that's what you know, I still do it in my consulting business. But that's so critically important in understanding how to speak to a particular customer. You know, not to digress, but back in the day in the casino industry, we used to experiment a/b test with colors in banners on Web sites and shapes. So like a crest, you know, kind of like an official looking symbol would do better than a star or square or a triangle. That said, new, new and improved. Right. So these are all I mean, I I don't want to get too granular in this particular issue.
[00:19:40] That's not exactly.
[00:19:43] But creating that sort of you know, that that brand that people are going to have that affinity with comes from the look in the feel and as well as the written word. That's why it's important to to have a professional copywriter. Everyone wants to do their own thing. They know their own words, but it helps. Now it really does.
[00:20:01] Now? Well, I like the idea that, you know, it really kind of goes back to who's your core customer and understand, how do they think? What do they care about? What are their values? Know what what are the words and terms that are going to resonate with them? And I just see this so much that particularly service based companies, they're they're kind of they're doing anything for anyone anytime. Really haven't zeroed in on who do they want to serve and what is this problem they're going to solve for them and how are they going to solve it? What is their offering? And I think if you do that, if you really kind of develop a good profile, you know, psychographic demographics, situational profile for your target customer, you you can actually look at something like an invoice and saying, OK, well, look, do I do I send this by email? Do I send it from the system? What kind of note should I be putting around it? What kind of backup do they need?
[00:20:43] You know, really thinking through kind of both the logical and the emotional aspects of how is this going to land, you know, not only from a kind of practical how do I get paid point of view, but also what kind of you know, what kind of taste am I living in their mouth in terms of the experience that they're going to have of this?
[00:20:56] And yes, if even if you're not the core customer having a good profile and being empathetic around that profile can can go a long way in terms of making some of those decisions.
[00:21:05] I 100 percent agree. So about. To your point, if you're sending in an invoice and it you know, it's going to the CFO or whoever is in charge of finance as opposed to someone who is in charge of the marketing. Again, it's a different persona and it might have a different flair one way or the other of how you actually word it.
[00:21:24] We do. There's a great example from someone who was doing storage solutions and it was just the structure of the structure of the invoice. They realized at one point that if they just they sought it in a different if the backups are sorted by client rather than by file number, it allows the other side to quickly grab and paste the sections that they need to be able to rebuild to their clients. You know, ended up being a strategic advantage because it saved a whole bunch of time and energy. So even something like an invoice, you can create a differentiator around because you're thinking through like, well, how is my client gonna use this? What do they need it for? How can I make their lives easier? So is it good? I think it's a good case of knowing your core customer what they need. How are they going to use this? You can actually you can create an advantage.
[00:22:07] Yeah, definitely. The other thing I was going to mention real quick is that at every touchpoint you should be adding value to your customers, interaction with you, give more than you get and you'll get way more. And in the end.
[00:22:19] Yeah. How do you do that? Because I think conceptually I get that idea. But like and to the extent that you do this with clients, you've done this in your business, like how does that mapping work? There's this Post-its on a wall. Is this a document like how do you how do you visualize that journey for the customer and start identifying these cutch points and identifying which ones you need to create more value around?
[00:22:39] I can only speak from personal experience. So when we do enterprise sales and we reach out to a potential client, we might have to work with five or six individuals within that organization. So if my our presentation is to the CFO and the finance people, we're talking to them with regard to the financial impact of not having a program like what we offer and what that means to them. When we speak to the person in charge of CRM and the data lanta at data analytics person, we speak to them on behalf of the data insights that we received from the customers based on their shopping preferences that we share with our client. When we look at the marketing people, we mentioned to them that it's, you know, the value that we're adding for them is we do all the work in-house. Your people just sign off on it. So it's one less thing you need to do. So the value that we add is at every single point, but it is related to whoever is the recipient of it. Yeah, if that makes sense.
[00:23:41] Yeah, I guess it is. And if you're going to look at the individual kind of customers within your broader client and figure out what why did they care about this, how can I help them or how can I point out what we're doing for them? So I want one thing I know we talk about a lot in terms of customer engagement, customer loyalty is this kind of lifetime value and increasing lifetime value. How do you how do you go about, you know, calculating or contemplating what the lifetime value is and what are some strategies you can kind of think longer term around customers and where you can create longer term value rather than kind of focusing on transactional? How do I get this one particular deal done or one particular transaction done and look at it more as a long term relationship?
[00:24:18] Yeah, well, obviously that's that's the Holy Grail is everyone's looking for a lifetime long term relationship with their client base. What that value is depends on the type of business that it is that you're selling the product or the service potential upsells on other products or services. But how you do it really is by overdelivering at every possible opportunity, not necessarily from a financial standpoint where it's going to cost you money, but the perceived value of you going above and beyond for that customer to help them in what's now kind of classified as consultative selling. So, you know, a lawyer or somebody else, a plumber or anybody else that's a small service operator that might be listening to, you know, your type of podcast is thinking to themselves, OK, how do I look at a customer's long term value and determine what they could be worth to me? You can only really go by your past experiences and say, you know, the average customer is worth X. What is it worth to me to add more value to this potential prospects offering that I'm offering or him or her so that I have upside in the in the future. Obviously, you know, it needs to be mathematically and financially sound, but you know that that is really, in my estimation, the key when it comes to thinking about lifetime values and long term relationships with potential clients.
[00:25:37] Now, with all these kind of SAS businesses and companies that are providing, you know, kind of online services and things like that, how I guess how do you develop some of these insights or what are some things you can do to actually collect more data or collect more insights or do more research? Are you doing focus groups or are you doing surveys? How do you collect? How do you collect the information that you need to be able to do the analysis and kind of figure out the strategy around your customers and messaging and targeting some of these things?
[00:26:03] Well, I mean, first and foremost, you're going to look at historical data. But if you. Let's say you don't have enough historical data. There's data available on the Internet for just about everything that you can imagine with work. As you know, you'd have to investigate it. But with everything you can imagine from every type of service business based on the type of area that you're servicing. So, you know, for someone who cleans rooves in the northeast compared to the southeast is going to be night and day, you know. An attorney that is more focused on real estate law as opposed to contractual law for general business purposes. Their value for each customer is going to be infinitely different. I don't know what they would be, but generally speaking, what we did in our own feasibility study for this industry is we looked at what other members of the coalition loyalty space were doing, what the average customer was worth. And generally this information is available through reports. So like there's a company called Curlicue that does kind of the loyal the loyalty industry Bible and they do a census every year of the industry at a whole. How many people are participating and the growth of the industry, etc. etc. the lifetime value of each particular customer because that industry's been around for a long time. You know, Eric, Treat our frequent flyer miles and airline miles have been around for a long time. So the information is obviously readily available thanks to Al Gore who invented this thing called the Internet.
[00:27:27] Yes, he did. That's all they say.
[00:27:29] And what are some things that leaders inside companies is kind of figuring this kind of customer loyalty things out? What we would typically do, you see people getting wrong and that they they know they can rethink or they should they should rethink, you know, in order to make sure they're getting off on the right foot on this whole strategy.
[00:27:44] Well, again, another great question. I think, you know, a lot of people that start entrepreneurial businesses do really rubbery. The book called The Image Three visited by Mike Ferber.
[00:27:54] So they have entrepreneurial seizures. A plumber who is working for a guy thinks making all this money for this guy, I should be doing this myself. And he gets into business by himself but doesn't realize what it really takes. And he has to work on his business, not in his business. So that the best piece of advice that I could give would be to find a mentor or find someone who's already done it. A consultant in the space of the industry that you're attempting to get into and do the research. So, again, my daughter and I, when we started this business, we sat together for literally six months understanding the business before we even thought of a name in it. Now, granted, I had the financial means to do that. And, you know, maybe some people don't, but sometimes people jump into things and rightfully so. I could see both sides, you know, get in first and then start aiming as you're going. Right. That's fine, too, that the minimum viable product idea or service idea. But understand where you're going. Have a target, a direction, you know. So. And in that is understanding your potential revenue opportunity. And again, that's the only reason that we started this business, because there was an opportunity to make money and the business model works and it's already being done by many others before us now.
[00:29:09] Now make sounds. That's what we always have been saying, that the faster you want to scale the business, the more you need to focus, the more you need to really, really zero in on a particular particular customer or particular service, particular channel, because that's going to that's going to smooth the whole system is going to allow you to be highly repeatable and scale it.
[00:29:23] Good advice. If you want to find out more about you, about complex. What's the best way to get that information?
[00:29:28] Well, I'm on LinkedIn so they could look at Rob Gallo on LinkedIn. And then what I did was I set up a special page on our site, comp links that co-CEO MPE 11k KSTP SEO forwhich less s._u._v.s just specifically for your listeners, has a financial impact calculator or some other information about how it is what we do. But aside from, you know, that in particular, with regard to complex itself, as I mentioned, I still consult. So if you know one of your listeners or anyone has some questions about something like that, I'd be more than happy to to help.
[00:30:03] Awesome. I will make sure that the links are on the show so people can click through and get that. Rob, this is a pleasure. I love. I love talking about strategy and I love talking about how to sort of build businesses through focusing on customer and delivering value to customers. So this has been really helpful. I appreciate the time.
[00:30:17] I appreciate your time as well, Bruce. Thanks.
[00:30:21] You've been listening to Scaling up Services with Business Coach, Bruce Eckfeldt. To find a full list of podcast episodes, download the tools and worksheets and access other great content, visit the website at scalingupservices.com and don’t forget to sign up for the free newsletter at scalingupservices.com/newsletter.