Dan Negroni, Speaker, CEO Coach, Founder, launchbox365
Dan is the quintessential next-generation business management and talent development consultant and executive coach. Dan leverages his authentic, no-nonsense approach and a successful 25+ year career and experience as a CEO, attorney, senior sales and marketing executive, to help companies deliver real results through leadership hacks and bridge the gap between managers and their Millennial and Gen Z workforce. The result is increased employee engagement, productivity, and profits. Dan is finishing his second book about how to understand and maximize the worker of the future through other focused leadership.
https://launchbox365.com/
https://dannegroni.com/
Tel: 1-858-344-5811
AUTOMATED EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:01] You're listening to Scaling Up Services where we speak with entrepreneurs authors business experts and thought leaders to give you the knowledge and insights you need to scale your service based business faster and easier. And now here is your host Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt.
[00:00:54] Welcome, everyone. This is Scaling Up Services. I'm Bruce Eckfeldt. I'm your host. And our guest today is Dan Negroni and he is building the worker of the future. We're gonna talk to him a little bit about his work and executive coaching and leadership. He is a speaker. He's an author. Really looking at what drives talent and engagement. What is the workplace going to look like? What does the worker of the future going to look like for context? We are recording this beginning of April, which is kind of in the thick of this covered 19 experience that we're all having, the crisis that we're all in, the pandemic that the world is in. And we just thought it'd be a great opportunity to talk a little bit about how that's likely going to accelerate. A lot of these issues is going to really challenge a lot of things. Obviously, everyone is working from home, which is is disrupting the normal kind of culture, environment, context that people are used to working with then. And I think it's going to be really interesting to see how it changes the workplace, potentially accelerate some of these ideas. So Dan and I are going to talk a little bit about that. I'm excited about this for service based companies. Obviously, culture and talent and people and engagement is huge. So there's going to be really important conversation with that. Dan, welcome to the program.
[00:01:55] Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's good to see you in my gym clothes here during the gilded 90m, like, like you said, sheltering in place. And I am a social person like service businesses, and I love and believe the key to life in the secret connection of human beings. And so it's tough. And I'm just it's been tough.
[00:02:13] And we'll see when this airs how we figure out opportunity out of this kind of really, really tough climate.
[00:02:20] Yeah, it is. I mean, obviously, everyone is dealing with crisis and unfortunately, some people very personally. But, you know, it is it's it's a disruption. And, you know, and every disruption causes a bunch of change. You know, and those people that can kind of navigate that successfully see the opportunity in that successfully are going to see opportunity and be able to leverage it and figure out how to rebuild not only their individual businesses, but really, you know, economies and markets and all industries are going to be shifted on this. So before we get into kind of all those media topics, I'd love to learn a little bit about gas and how they got into sort of doing what they're doing. Give us a little bit of the story. How did you get into this area of sort of the workplace and workers and bridging gaps and different generations and workforces? What was your background and how did you get into this?
[00:03:02] Yeah, I always say this is my least favorite topic is myself. But by way of background, I am a New Yorker, so I hail from. I know where Fort Lee is. You were telling me where you live. Yeah, I am a New Yorker. I grew up kind of as a poor kid in New York, went to law school, worked for a very large firm and with big companies and then worked in the high tech industry in the C-suite, mostly focused on sales. And then after probably about twenty five years, I said, you know, I have a perspective that really has helped all the people that I work with. And I kind of went through I don't know whether it was a mid-life crisis or whether it was a crisis at all, but it really was this pivoting point where I realized I it wasn't about me, wasn't about how many sales, how much money, all those things. It really was about the impact and empowerment.
[00:03:49] I could have to help others build their best selves. And my kids were growing up. They were millennials. They were coming out of college. And I just heard all this crap talk about them. And I actually own Derby dealerships, 18 of them at the time. And we had customers who were boomers. And the people that we're working were mostly millennials. And I saw the gap actually able to come together and able to have where youth and experience met. Magic happened. And I just was so, so tired of all the bull about how crappy millennials were, how they didn't, or there were young people. They were figuring themselves out. And so I figured I really want to get involved with helping people, helping and particularly service businesses figure out how to bridge the gap between the generation that we were in and the generation that was coming up because they were the future. And if you didn't focus on the future, basically your businesses would die. And so the stereotypical nonsense just hurt me. And I thought, what? I gotta figure out a solution to not only talk about it and research it. There are plenty of people who do that but to solve it. And so we developed what we were what we believed was an inside out approach to bridging the gap between disparate groups by allowing people to understand themselves better, by allowing the worker to understand them selves with a certain amount of clarity and competence and a certain amount of impact that they wanted to have.
[00:05:13] And that would create connection currency that would cure the workplace or this pretty much later. Discussion about youth and experience being so different. Which was not true. Yeah. So we built that business and that has kind of morphed into you speaking about what does the worker or the future need in any generation? Right. And because we need mostly the same things, people are people. How do people communicate with people? And no matter what generation you are, you come with a different perspective. And if we can fix that perspective, you can understand your strengths, your values, your skills and passions. You can light the world on fire and you can be engaged in your own workplace and you can make a difference. And so let's push the responsibility where it belongs. The employer needs to provide a system for them to do it, but the employee needs to step up to our streets or not. So that's how we got into the business. And, you know, five years later, we have a booming executive coaching business of companies of all sizes billion dollar Fortune 1000, as well as a mom and pop law firms or accounting firms or marketing firms with 30 employees. So we love it and we adore it. And, you know, the real reason or the short answer is how to get in the business.
[00:06:25] I can't help myself from wanting to tell people what to do.
[00:06:30] You know, I love it. I love it. So let's take it to some of the concepts that I think that I mean, you mentioned a couple of things in your background there, and I noticed you're very careful about some of the words that you use. Let's talk about this idea of generation a little bit, just kind of maybe set some background or talk about some of these concepts, too, when we talk about a generation. What are we really I guess, what are we referring to? How do you kind of see this idea of generation? Where is it applicable? Where is it not clickable? Where do we kind of make mistakes or assumptions or overgeneralize when we talk about generations and where, whereas a helpful or effective in terms of figuring out diagnosing this problem and figuring out solutions.
[00:07:05] So there's tons of great researched, hard researched books on what generations mean. You know, what are the time periods? Usually they're 15 to 18 years each generation and that each generation was shaped by the events as our generation Z now and millennials will be shaped by this event. Right now at 19 in a big, big way. And I believe Weiwei for the better.
[00:07:29] I believe this is a pause that's going to help us focus, because I'm an all perpetual optimist, because I want to frame my world that we will be better as human beings.
[00:07:38] And so I think a lot of the events frame those generations. Traditionally, what happens when you see people go into organizations and talk about generations is who say, OK, there are five generations in the workplace today. It's never been more complex. We need to understand each other. Everyone comes from a different place and then we go through them. Gen Xie's You are that right? The up and comers now under twenty two millennials who are usually about 24 to about thirty nine now the Xers and then the Boomers, and then the traditionalists. And we break them apart. We say, right. The traditionalists were born in the Great Depression. They have these attributes. Xers were latchkey kids. They have these Zak's attributes. Boomers, you know, were born during wartime and they have these attributes. Well, when I go in, I do that. And I put up the chart of the five different generations. I want people to understand that there are the generations and they do exist, just like I'm from New York originally. So I act differently than a Californian or a person from Georgia or Florida, from Europe or whatever it is. Right. Or someone who grew up in a single parent home or all those things. And so I take that generational chart and I blow it up. And really my view is this is that people are people and we need to adopt what we call the platinum rule is the golden rule is not the golden rule that that employers think, which is I got all the rules, but the golden rule that says all the think Starwood before October 19 was doing. We treat you the way we want to be treated. Well, kind of bullshit. I want to be treated the way I want to be treated. Right. My wife doesn't like it direct. I like a directed and. If I treat her directed bowled in a. Yeah. It's.
[00:09:17] I mean so.
[00:09:18] So we gotta use the platinum rule which is how do we learn enough about people to understand how to treat them the way they want to be treated no matter what race, what gender, what age.
[00:09:29] And so that's about bridging the gaps, which is blasting all the myths that someone of Asian descent or someone who is African-American will act a certain way. It's just it's not true. It's not real.
[00:09:41] And so for me, the generational thing is helpful to give a context of what that person might have experienced. But it's only one attribute. It's kind of like now we're all working, distributed or remote or virtual, and only 7 percent of communication is verbal. Right. And so much different nonverbal. That's why video is good to see each other. It's the same thing about age. It's just one of those things. And so I'm tired of it. It's annoying. Yes. Younger people are better with technology for the most part. We understand those things. But come on, let's figure out who we really are, how we want to be treated. And then that is the challenge plan and the engagement plan. Right. We've got to ask people. They want from us or what they need. It's one of our hacks turning the organization upside down. You want to know what someone wants review and how they want to be managed or led ask. Yeah.
[00:10:29] I like that. I mean, I think that too often that I've seen, you know, kind of the generational differences as kind of an excuse of people, you know, behaving or acting or treating people in certain ways. It's like, oh, well, they're a traditionalist or they're a millennial. So, you know, I'm going to assume that this is, you know, what they want or how they're going to behave or what they care about.
[00:10:48] So I'm going to do things this way. And yes, well, there may be some general sort of truth or tendencies at a very high level when it comes down to individual people.
[00:10:57] You know, it doesn't end up being a very good strategy or a basis to kind of manage against or communicate against. So I'd like that whole idea of like it. Yes, there are these generations. But from a practical point of view or from an individual management point of view or engagement point of view, that's it's probably it's probably not a good system to be able to make big decisions on.
[00:11:13] So, yes, I get the idea of we need to ask them, we need to understand what do they care about, how do they want to be managed, what are their goals, what are their values? How do you actually do that? Like, what does that conversation look like from an engagement point of view, an employee government point of view, whether you're a co-worker or whether you're a manager. How do you actually discover what people care about, what their values are, what their ambitions are?
[00:11:32] Yeah. Great question. So let me just go up a level which is so we have three hawks before you deploy the system or tools and the hacks for any bridging the gap is right. So turn your organization upside down or turn the thing upside down to ask the people what they want. Number two is really understand what is meaningful work to those people. So understand that people, no matter what age, really want to create impact. It's our contribution for the most part. It's the number one thing we care about in the workplace of all ages.
[00:12:02] And so we really need to understand what is meaningful to them. And many times, what is most meaningful for people. Dale Carnegie said it early on is what's in it for that? And so what's in it for them is this basic human tendency. Hey, what about me? And so what we find mostly in meaningful work, which turns that kind of selfish perspective, is what's in it for them is our third rule, which is what can you teach them to be better at understanding themselves, to connect with others, to create impact, which is the third. So number one is turn your workplace upside down.
[00:12:39] Number two is understand meaningful work to them because people will leave you if they don't have meaningful work. And that includes number three, which is reskill them on how to kidnap and create impact for others.
[00:12:51] And the basis of that on engagement and talent is what we've seen work, which is soft skills, so to speak, which I hate that term right now. Q E I teach them how to understand themselves, how to ask the right questions and the great questions and how to be cognizant that it's not about them, it's about others, and teach them enough about themselves to articulate their value and to be interesting and interesting and their tips and tools and how to ask them or how to teach them how to ask questions, how to teach them how to communicate their skills in a way that serves elders, to teach them how to provide value. And so I think what we've learned bridging the gap is about teaching people how to connect with themselves and others, which creates results. And even in this crisis, yeah, what we need to do is more of that, because the result we're trying to create is resilience. It's trying to shift from the immediate tactical. What do I do? Fear and emotion and focus and uncertainty, too. What is the opportunity that will come from this for me to do better for myself or my clients and for the world?
[00:14:02] Yeah, there's two things in there that are fascinating that I want to dig into a little bit.
[00:14:05] One is this idea that people actually need to kind of teach themselves what meaningful work is really going to be for them. And I came out of the user experience design or that was part of my history. And one of the things we always learned about customer research or interface design was you can't just sit down with someone who's a client or who's going to potential user or customer of this thing and say, well, what do you want? Because nine times out of ten they'd actually don't know. Right. And exact. They may even tell you a bunch of things, but it turns out have nothing to do what you really want. So they may actually be delusional. And it's only through kind of showing them examples, giving them alternatives, you know, having them pick between three things and tell me which which best meet your needs. You have to kind of go through this process. They have to go through a process of really figuring out what they need. And I think that's really that's a big idea for most managers or most people in businesses that are looking to engage their employees is that you need to recognize that they may not have a perfectly clear idea of what they want. And unfortunately, part of your job as an employer, as a manager, is going to be help them figure that out. And that may be a little frustrating, I guess, for some folks.
[00:15:04] But if you do that well, it's going to be really powerful for you, because then not only do you know, but they know. And now you've got this engagement. So I'd love to talk a little bit more about that in terms of how I guess, how does that play out or how do you see companies that do that really well? Managers, employers that do that really well. They actually do it. How do they help people figure out what is going to be meaningful and engaging for them as as people?
[00:15:26] Well, the biggest problem with that, and especially in the service world, is what does that take time? Right. It takes time to really understand it. And it's really interesting because as we've migrated from bridging the generational gap to really fine tuning and helping the worker, the future really thrive by understanding themselves. Right. It's kind of the tool that's underneath the bridge. One of my friends said to me early on, it's just that young people don't know what they want. Right. That's the problem with millennials or young people. I think. Wow, what a crock. It's dumb of them. It's true. But isn't that true for all of us? It's not as much that we don't know what we want. We just have a really hard time articulating it and understanding ourselves well enough to be able to articulate it and share it with someone. So yesterday I coached probably four people.
[00:16:15] Each of them was a struggle because neither one of them could tell me what their superpower was or what their unique differentiation was for the world so they could help. They were looking to figure out how they grow in their career. They're looking to figure out if they should change jobs. They're looking to figure out how to lead a team. And they can't even clearly articulate who they are, what their perspective is and what they do super well. And so to me, the bones of any great leader is to give those people that work for you. Access to understand. And it could be any type of baseline assessment.
[00:16:53] It could be desk. It could be strength finder. It could be 16 PEF.
[00:16:57] It could be whatever you think it is, as long as we allow them to start to explore themselves and then give them the gift of asking them really tough questions to be able to quantify who they are in the way that it really demonstrates the meaning that they were looking for. And then you can see the gaps in the skills they need to build up.
[00:17:19] And the problem is, it's a shit ton of time.
[00:17:22] Yeah, exactly. And and it's a it's a process. All right. I mean, they kind of have to go through, you know, to go through stages. They have to go through experiments. They have to experience different things to to really kind of hone that.
[00:17:34] And and yeah, unfortunately, I think a lot of a lot of employers, a scammer or unfortunately kind of are in the position or set up a situation where they know they've got to do this quickly and then weeks when this can take, you know, many, many odds to really do it well.
[00:17:45] So just to your point about because I think it's so interesting the way you can do it from my user experience, which is it is a laboratory. People's lives are a laboratory to figure out how to get better. And we have to spend the time to do it. And giving them quick tools and creating a quick time or really a system.
[00:18:03] How much one on one time am I going to spend with each other? Each person each week. And now virtually it's even more complex, but they need more about how am I going to create a buddy situation for them? Know, how am I going to give them a formal opportunity to speak about themselves and a private opportunity to speak about themselves? How am I going to create a safe and trusting environment to do it? And here's the most interesting thing about it.
[00:18:24] If you figure it out for your employees, especially if your service business, all of the service professionals that we work, their businesses grow 10x where they learn how to describe themselves and that they learn how to cast everything and what's in it for the audience and what's the value that they're going to provide to the audience and impact. I mean, I have tons of young lawyers have four and five million dollar books. That is unheard of only because they took the time to understand themselves, figure out their story in a way that it really communicated with the other the audience in a way that helps the audience. Right. So like when you ask me, Dan, tell me about yourself, I'm like, OK, got painful. I'd rather tell you about what it means to me to help other people and why write it.
[00:19:09] So there's a there's a an angle in this. I'm kind of curious to get your take on, which is as a you know, as an employer, if if I go into the situation where I've got a, you know, a cohort of employees, you know, it's sort of new employees that I'm bringing on. I'm assuming that they don't really know what they think. They they haven't completely defined what their purpose means or how, you know, what engaging work is going to look like for them. I'm going to put them all through this process. I can't help but be exposed to this concern that some of these folks. Once we figure this out, we may find that this is not the best place for them. So what they want to do is like and I'm guessing that the reason that's okay for you or the reason that's okay in the end is that even if you know, two thirds of those folks say that, you know what, in the end, this is not the right place for you by going through this, that the impact that the third that do stay will be so great it will outweigh any investment that you've had to make in the two thirds that ended up not working out. I mean, is that the kind of calculus that you're sort of seeing or that good employers end up finding?
[00:20:06] So great employers are people that understand this and really have values and can communicate it and walk the talk. And walking the talk is really about being able to do this in every aspect of your. Station, including hiring. All right. So I might advocate doing an assessment where you could find out someone's strengths before they get to be hired, not because you want to see if they're right for a certain job, like to have analytical skills or they have the influencing or sales skills. But because by understanding the strengths about them, you can question them to see how aware they are, how aware they want to be, how meaningful they are and how much their values will go with you. So that's the first thing I think when you really wrap this in and don't just do it as an onboarding and do it as part of your review process, part of your one on one's part on your your success stories, all those things, you really can wrap it in. And I will tell you, I don't think it takes a lot of time. But imagine this. You do it right in the hiring. You get the people there they experience. They come on board, you teach them about themselves. You talk about the importance of other focused communication and having a story and being able to connect not only for BD, but for all our client development, but for internally. And they go home and they say, holy, wow, this is right. And I want my 10 friends to come. So you tend to do is start to change the nature of what you say and your purpose and context once you build it as an employer brand, you reiterated as what you give to your employees.
[00:21:39] And look, I think these are nonstarters. They're non-starters. If you're a parent, you have a bunch of kids and teaching your kids who they want to be. We need to teach people who they want to be and luck before the crisis. And I'm just going to say this, because we built a deck way before this crisis started. That was about the worker of the future. And here were the statistics. 80 percent of the workforce is stressed as determined by the American Institute of Stress. I didn't even know we had one. But we did. There was a 33 percent increase in anxiety. There was a 40 percent increase in depression. And there was 71 percent of the workforce, including Gallup, was disengaged. That was before this crisis. So I knew the answer was that I believe it. Why did I start this business? Because I believe in this system so much. And I've seen it work for 20000 thousand people to change the nature of the trajectory of individuals, teams and businesses if they do it. And so we were like that before. We're gonna be more like it now. It's not the uncertainty. And so the trick is to double down on your managing double down. I'm teaching people how to be resilient by understanding that they have the tools to understand themselves and connect with others. And truth is, if that's all they have, if that's all my kids get from college, I'm a happy dad.
[00:22:58] Yeah. How do you see this playing out? I mean, so we're you know, everyone's kind of going through the various stages of grief and acceptance and kind of dealing with the crisis and the situations around. But, you know, in the coming weeks here, hopefully we're going to see it. The other side of this peak, you know, at least for some of our geographic areas. You know, people are going to start thinking about, all right, what am I doing next? What is the new normal look like? How what are some of the things you're anticipating in terms of, you know, both employees and employers that that they're going to have to start thinking about or grapple with as they kind of focus on recovering and figuring out what their new business models look like or the new business situations? How do you see this impacting things?
[00:23:33] Yeah, I mean, I hope that everyone takes above pause and a beat to really, really understand that, you know, there was grief. We've lost a lot. We've lost a lot of old. I'm not saying that I'm not positive. I'm totally positive. There is opportunity on the other side. And I think the grief and losing the things, the freedoms that we took for granted before and some of the businesses and some of the opportunities and some of the jobs is enormous. And so we got to understand that and live that and give people and systems and businesses are going to need just like they have employer assistance plans for people with mental stress or things like that. I think what I think the world needs is coaching assistant plants, whether they're internally or externally. I don't believe in selling in this time period. And I don't really believe in selling. I believe that we as a workforce need independent individuals in our jobs, like some companies are great at giving them time to invent, giving them time to reinvent, giving them people to talk to. You know, I hope to see businesses put in place. Systems that understand the worker of the future is now. And what that worker needs is help on understanding themselves and improving their skills.
[00:24:43] Know, I think that makes a lot of sense when you work with companies, when people engage, you hire you to help them. What are you specifically helping them with? What is an engagement look like? What problems are you solving? Tell us a little bit about how you really kind of. Yeah, apply yourself to the business.
[00:24:58] So I look at it like they're just delivery models. One of the delivery models is speaking. You speak to a big audience, you focus. We do assessments before our speaking engagements. Always we talk to the board. We see what the result is they're looking for. We push them hard. We go before we do our diligence. But speaking is about creating impact in a short period of.
[00:25:20] That changes immediate mindset, that allows them to open the door to do some of the other delivery methods, the other delivery methods are workshops, we tend not to like to do one and done because I want to get value and I don't think you can give value and want it done other than the educate. Tainment of the speech. So we usually combine our workshops with coaching and so we usually work coaching. We have a staff of about 10 coaches and engagements where we'll do quarterly workshops or things of that nature. Some maybe some bigger speeches. But then we do individual assessments and we take them through a process where we teach them their strengths, their stories, their values, their skills, their passions, how to connect with other people, how to articulate their values, how to use it both internally for the workplace and externally for clients. And then we coach them on some of the second tier part of the curriculum, how to create trust immediately, how to use empathy, how to communicate using a system that we have and then how to shape businesses and their service culture. So everything we do individual we can do for team. So our engagements are usually long term relationships with our clients where we guarantee an outcome.
[00:26:31] And if someone listen to the podcast here as a as a leader and a service business, what's one or two things you can kind of suggest they focus on? You know, once we kind of get to the recovery side of this situation, things that kind of help help them kind of frame the situation, areas of focus, conversations they should have. What are some suggestions you can give them?
[00:26:49] So, yes, yes and yes. The first thing you know, I'll use the three hacks, really understand what your workforce needs from you at this particular time. So do a survey monkey, do interviews, have one of your H.R. people, do a pulse check. Gain some real understanding of what people are looking for you in this time and understand what meaningful is to them today. vis-a-vis what it was last week and what some of their fears are and what they want to learn and what you know, what they want to learn to create certainty anchors for themselves and where they're willing to find meaning and reinvention. And then the third is figure out a way once you hear all of that information to start teaching and looking at learning and development and training more is coaching because this individualized I look at a video and I'm going to get better is not going to work. It's as a group. How are we going to work better as a team, how we're going to communicate better, how we're going to serve our clients better. And I believe for reinvention on the way up to really, really focus on. I have a friend, for example, who is in the biotech space. And traditionally they do orphan diseases. They have to hire 60 salespeople for a drug. And I said it only creates maybe five million dollars where the revenue or profit. I'm like, dude, you have to figure out how to do that differently.
[00:28:07] The math on that is pretty bad.
[00:28:08] It's like the math is consistent and it works all the time. Unlike Bull, you know there is a better way. Yeah. Look what happened with the world. Gather your people to reinvent how we can save some time, save some resources and do that differently and better. And I think that is a prime example that the workplace is going to have to push its people to want to do that and to welcome it instead of trying to push what was in the past and do it a little bit differently. It's like reinventing. Yeah, really kind of. What if we could do these things? So creativity.
[00:28:44] I'll go so far as to say I think the companies that actually survive this or come out of this, you know, and of 20, 20, 20, 21, you know, in a position of strength and dominate the industry is will be the ones that do that. And quite honestly, people that don't, I think are probably not going to survive. I mean, this is going to be a very I think, unfortunately, Darwinian time the next year or two as people kind of process all this. But yeah, I think if you can you can take that approach really be reflected and figure out what skills capabilities drive. I've I'm a big fan of continuous improvement. Right. To develop this culture of continuous learning, continuous improvement that's going to get people through this change faster than anything. But, you know, some people will do it and some people want. But honestly, some good advice.
[00:29:21] Yeah, and exactly. And the people that do do it. And here's the other thing is, is they got to provide an environment for their employees to feel safe, to express that they're in it because millennials Jed ZIS, people of all generations.
[00:29:33] They want to be better. And so we have to be able to hear their voices down.
[00:29:38] This has been great. If people want to find out more about you, about the work that you do, what's the best place to get that information?
[00:29:44] Our Web site is launchbox as in rocket ship launch L A U N C H B O X 365.com. I have a speaking page. DanNegroni. com at our phone number is 8 5 8 3 4 4 5 8 1 1. And they can reach us there. And, you know, we want to make impact and help people be their best selves. And what happens to them is because of them. And that's true for employers and individuals. And let's get it on. Let me let's get going.
[00:30:14] Yeah, no, exactly. I agree. I'll make sure all those links and phone number and everything that are in the show notes. People can click through and get that down there has been great. A perfect topic for the situation we're in, and I think it's really going to be helpful for people listening here that are in service based businesses to kind of frame their thinking around how do they really recover? How do they really position themselves in this new world and great kind of great messages, underlying principles.
[00:30:37] Obviously, I'm I'm a big fan, so I appreciate your time today. Likewise. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time.
[00:030:43] You've been listening to Scaling up Services with Business Coach, Bruce Eckfeldt. To find a full list of podcast episodes, download the tools and worksheets and access other great content, visit the website at scalingupservices.com and don’t forget to sign up for the free newsletter at scalingupservices.com/newsletter.